So the other day I realised I never actually finished this series, so I started rewatching it. I dropped the manga sometime during the coup d'etat arc cuz that was boring shit and the anime around season 3 or so, when they started splitting this shit up into a million chunks I thought I'd wait until it's finished and then watch it, and now I finally got around to do that. And I have some thoughts and questions.
The final season, the story after the time skip is... messy. The transition felt really awkward and the fact that we're kept in the dark for mystery purposes regarding how exactly Eren and friends arrived at their current situation doesn't help. I don't want to sya the author wrote himself into a corner, because I think there were still penty of options to deliver something... better, but it certainly seems like he established a bunch of stuff because it was cool at the time and then when came to tying all those threads together, the results was a clusterfuck. The way I see it, the "original sin" in this regard are the intelligent titans. Now don't get me wrong, they were a great addition for the plot as it unfolded, but I think they're also the source of the core issue that really turns the finale into a shitshow. If you have titans as stupid, mindless monsters killing on insticts, you can whatever you want to explain that - magic, curse, science gone wrong, whatever, doesn't matter. But when you introduce intelligent titans, the natural question everyone is going to have is "why are they doing this? what could possibly justify this endless assault?" And I don't think we ever got a good answer to that. We got a shitty answer in form of a very stretched jew anology, but it doesn't feel right, especially since Isayama seemed hell-bent on keeping Reiner and friends somewhat sympathetic, making them oppressed pawns just following orders.
1/6
Shingeki no Kyoujin/Attack on Titan
It's fine to have their little group be psychotic and take down the walls for whatever reasons, but when you
place them as soldiers in a chain of command, that means you have a whole military (and by extension,
country) following this crazy strategy of entrusting children with weapons of mass destructions to infiltrate
these others potential titans to recover the mcguffin prevent pseudo-nukes. It's extremely hard to believe.
I don't want to dwell too much on the world-building, but it's hard not to when so much of the final season
is about establishing this outside world. Also the attempts to make me sympathise with the Eldians and even
the Marley characters by introduction of these children felt very clumsy and blunt. I'm not gonna stop
rooting for the characters we've known all along because you show me some random kids that live a rough life,
it doesn't work like that, especially when you show them as thinking the island people are all devils
(they're a product of their environment, but still). Funny thing though, when they showed the kids living on
the island undercover and the cook character mourning Sasha, I was actually getting annoyed because I felt
like the series was way too blunt in setting up some "Hey maybe these devils are just humans afterall, maybe
we should all get along" sort of resolution. Funny because while I was annoyed, I would have much preferred
this to the actual resolution. Speaking of Sasha, unceremonious death, less than she deserved imo, even
though I actually like the things her death was a catalyst for. Speaking of unceremonious deaths, did Ymir
seriously just die off-screen? In the manga too? It's like, last we see her she's leaving with Reiner and
friends and then we see her titan being controlled by somone else, oh well? Very odd and something that made
me think "what was the point of all that?", something I sadly thought about a lot of things in the final season.
2/6
The scale of the final season also felt like a problem. It's fine to have your plucky group of heroes fight
monsters, retake the walls and uncover the secrets of the titans, but when you expand the world to a global
set of nations in WW1-era Earth, well, there is a limit to what a couple of titans and some dudes with swords
can really do before it gets silly, especially when you change the goal of the series from "defeat the enemy"
to "end a 1000 year oild blood feud, end discrimination and the cycle of violence while ensuring your
geopolitical survival at a technological disadvantaged nation in a hostile world". Simply put, it doesn't
fuck work, and the attempt to boil such an immaterial and complex goal down to a level the heroes could
actually solve with swords is what leads to "the rumbling". I don't hate the rumbling in theory, but it did
feel very cheap. And maybe that's just me, but genocide aside, it really feels like the right thing to do for
the islanders to ensure their survival? And I blame the author for expanding the world here. If you turn your
medieval fantasy world into our history, I'm gonna judge it by our history. And yeah, the islanders were
fucked without their titan nukes. Mutually assured destruction is a great deterrent, that's the fucking real
world we live in right now. Actually going through with it and destroying the world, a little more debatable,
but the series stay with Armin & friends who seemed opposed to the whole thing a lot more fundamentally which
just seems.... wrong? Naive, if not stupid? A lot of time I just thought "how else are you going to untangle
this mess without violence?" Seemed impossible. But killing everyone is also obviously wrong and even if Eren
banked on himself being stopped, just seems really hard to imagine any lasting peace really coming out of
this shit (and apparently, it didn't, judging by the post-credits scenes).
3/6
But really, I think I could have supported almost any bullshit or asspull if it didn't feel so incredibly
undeserved, undignified - pointless. Like I said, "what was the point" is a thought I had a lot in the final
season. And I don't mean that in some pretentious, "what was the point of this series, what is is trying to
say" sort of way (though that is part of it), it's really more about looking at the characters and the story
and wondering what was actually achieved. So many characters struggled, died, lived terrible lives, made huge
sacrifices - and THIS is the result? Eren, the hero of humanity, fighting his old friends? The scouts divided
and killing each other? THIS is what is has all been leading up to? This is what everyone died for? I don't
think I'm asking for a happy ending, but what we got is just... it makes all the sacrifices seem so pointless
in a way that feels needlessly cruel. The series was always cruel, but it also had hope. "The world is cruel
but beautiful" is the old line. Well, the world didn't feel beautiful at all in the finale. It just seemed
cruel, incredibly cruel to all our heroes hard efforts amount to so much death and horror. I don't want to
say I hated it because generally, I had a fun time watching, but when I look at the bigger picture and try to
see what it all culminated in, I can't help but feel disappointed.
4/6
Now some questions/nitpicks
1. What exactly was up with Eren's titan memory power? I understand that once he became a titan, old memories
flowed into him and when he came into contact with a royal titan/Historia, some more were unlocked and he
reached CHIM or whatever and saw all his memories at the same time and it felt like he could travel through
them and even change stuff. But how the fuck does that relate to him "dreaming" of the future at the very
beginning of the series, before he even had titan powers? While the details of this are somewhat irrelevant
in the grand scheme of things, I would still like to know just what is up with that? On that note, I found it
funny because when the manga was just starting, many people were suspecting some time travel shenanigans
based on the first panels, guess they weren't too far off.
2. Something that drove me fucking crazy the entire final season is that Eren pushed away Armin. Eren is
shown over and over to trust Armin and rely on him when he doesn't know what to do, when he's forced with a
big problem that really requires some thought. But now he has this bombshell future vision shit in his head,
and he decided to figure this shit out all by himself?? What the fuck?? It seemed very out of character. And
this frustration only got worse when in the finale Eren is like "oh yeah we ended up like this because I'm an
idiot, lmao" COOL MAYBE TURN TO THE GUY NOT AN IDIOT BEFORE RUINING THE WORLD???? AS YOU DID COUNTLESS TIMES BEFORE??? Seriously was that just me? Did I miss something here, or did other people feel the same?
3. On that note, how did people like the ending? I actually managed to avoid most of the spoilers. I knew
people were clowning on the "I don't want that" panel (honestly, that's the least of the finale's problems imo) and I somewhat caught on that people were not too happy with the ending, but I avoided any specifics on purpose.
5/6
4. Is the post-credits shit really supposed to show that yeah, everything got destroyed anyway? Because that
would be really fucking lame and goes back to my "what the fuck was the whole point" thing.
5. Armin and Annie are a thing, apparently? Eren told Armin that's because Berthold is getting into his head
and while we're told Eren was making some of the shit in that conversation up, old memories obviously do
affect people. There were some scenes early that seemed to imply Annie has some sympathies for Armin, but it
never really seemed to go both directions. I suppose we're expected to believe this was all Armin's feelings
in the end? Because the alternative, him being subconsciously brainwashed by memories, would be pretty
disgusting. Did people like this pairing?
5. So the thing that made founder Ymir finally put the titans to rest is Misaka killing Eren, right? Like,
what we're supposed to get is that she killed the one she loves because it was the right thing to do or
whatever, and that inspired Ymir to also give up on her lover's wish. Like, that was the point or
something????
5. Speaking of Ymir, she found that titan parasite or whataver in a tree, did we ever learn just what the
hell that was?
6. That tree obviously resembled the tree where Eren's head was buried and the post-credit scene seems to
imply someone wandering into that tree too. There is a lot of talk throughout the series of things repeating
or breaking cycles, is that just general metaphorical talk about breaking this cycle of violence or are we
supposed to believe this is a very literal loop of people wandering into a tree, getting titan powers,
fucking up the world and that just keeps happening? If that is supposed to be a conclusion, I would once
again ask "what the fuck was the point of all this?"
I probably have some other shit but this is already way too much text, so that's it.
Thanks for reading my blog. Sorry for the formatting, copy-pasting fuckery.
Am I too late? Did all the SnK fans on Anon Babble die?
how about them old memes am I right guys
We had a SnK thread some days ago, and now there is a Mikasa thread, try there or again in some days.
thanks, i guess
Paragraphs, anon, do you know what paragraphs are?
I wrote out my shit, was over the character limit obviously, so I wrote this shit out in editor
paragraphs were eaten by copy paste
You're over 3 years too late for this shitty series
well then I guess my thoughts are spoken into the void
i think all the shipfags ruined discussion here.
its ok though because in all honesty its better to not over discuss the show imo, its better to have your own pure feelings towards the story and ideals it is trying to speak to you. most people just want to talk about stupid normal anime stuff like girls or whatever, thats not even 1% of what makes the story good in my opinion.
I would be interested in having a discussion about what people think about WIT and Kabaneri of the Iron Fortress/SNK. I don't know much about that but after watching the first episode of Kabaneri it struck me as an AOT ripoff which made me wonder if it had Isayama's blessing or if he felt insulted and thats why the switch to MAPPA?
its better to have your own pure feelings towards the story and ideals it is trying to speak to you.
Well that's kind of the thing. Like I said I don't think I dislike the series, but the conclusion does feel very underwhelming, like it didn't really amount to much. I know it's sounds like I'm asking for some happy ending, but it's really more like I'm asking for ANYTHING worthwhile. It really feels like all the struggles, the deaths, really didn't lead to anything. What were all these people fighting and dying for??
In terms of shipping, I dunno, seems like a bit silly thing to discuss considering there's barely any pairing in it (which I find a bit sad). Armin and Annie did not feel organic at all and considering the whole "berthold in the head" thing, it has a sour aftertaste too. I was sad to see Eren and Mikasa end up with... nothing. Again, kind of similar to the entire story. Eren never truly rejected her, she never really truly confessed, instead they're left in this limbo, no real resolution - what was the point??
I understand I probably sound more negative towards the series than I actually am, but the idea that lots of potential was squandered is what I feel the most right now.
The studio switch was because WIT wasn't making too much of a profit with SnK, so they left the series to do other things.
MAPPA then picked SnK after an agreement where they would get more money from producing the anime (or something like that, I don't remember quite well) while doing it on the time that Kodansha set for them to do it.
oh yeah did historia just sit back and watch as her country turns into a military dictatorship? I understand answering questions about the legitimacy of a military coup (AGAIN) probably would have been beyond the scope of some epilogue, but still....
The ending chapters were ridiculously executed. Isamaya probably got burnt out from taking shit in his onsen that he started on the manga.
My headcannon is that Eren after freeing Ymir tripped under the fully fledged Titan powers which stretched his consciousness to all spacetime ultimately getting dissociated in the paths. The ending we got is the last actions he was able to get through.
Tl;dr Eren gave up freedom as his goal to save his friends and that destroyed him
The frustration you feel could be seen as inherently the message the writer is delivering.
Humanity's cycle of hatred is intrinsic to our nature. No matter what, even divine power on the level of the Founder, it will continue. Even if Eren destroys 80% of the population, Paradis was still bombed. It was all for nothing in the grand scheme of things.
This is eluded to in a few choice scenes. Zeke and Armin's conversation in the Paths, but in a litany of others too.
We cannot solve the problems of humanity, but maybe we aren't meant to? Perhaps the reason we are born is just to experience one moment that may seem inconsequential to us as it happens, but that moment is truly all that matters once this world returns to dust.
But how the fuck does that relate to him "dreaming" of the future at the very
beginning of the series, before he even had titan powers?
That was an entirely different mechanism, these were likely memories sent by Ymir fritz.
Seriously was that just me? Did I miss something here, or did other people feel the same?
No, Eren not having a solid reason to push Armin and Mikasa away post timeskip was one of the main discussion point while the manga was ongoing. Most people don't find the answer convincing.
how did people like the ending
On average? So-so for the manga, a bit better for the anime, a bit better for both in Japan.
5. Armin and Annie are a thing, apparently?
Kinda, Isayama never confirmed any ship beside Gabi x Falco
is that just general metaphorical talk about breaking this cycle of violence or are we
supposed to believe this is a very literal loop of people wandering into a tree, getting titan powers,
fucking up the world and that just keeps happening
Actual unironic answer is that it's a big reference to isayama's 2006 Attack on titan one shot, where survivors of an event that killed 80% of mankind live in af forest of gigantic trees.
The frustration you feel could be seen as inherently the message the writer is delivering.
I think that's a cop-out. You can make a story about the cycle of violence and humanity's lust for destruction or whatever, but you have to actually, you know, say something about it. Are these things good, bad, inevitable? Should we try to change this, should we accept this and do the best? Should we despair or hope? To me, it feels like the series just shows these things without ever really taking a stance. I don't expect it to solve these millenia-old issues, but it really feels like it didn't feel like it had much to say about them either beyond some vague notion of "genocide bad".
Thank you for these answers.
Isayama wasn't involved in Kabaneri, however it was Tetsuro Araki's (Death note/S1-S3 SnK director) pet project and used much of the same team that made SnK, I'm pretty sure he said that he wanted to reference SnK in one interview.
thats why the switch to MAPPA
Switch to MAPPA is because WIT 1) wanted to diversify 2) had terms (cost and especially production time) that Kodansha refused, and anyway the switch happened in early 2019, long after S1 of Kabaneri
Yarundana?! Ima?! Koko de?!
Oh and another thing, did the manga maybe every really show the group confront Reiner and friends? I understand growing up the way they did led them to believe certain things, but after their infiltration they obviously learned that the island people aren't evil. They're shown to have remorse and a conscience and all that jazz, but they never figured to, you know, maybe side with the islanders? They never once wavered in their loyality to a nation that has treated them so badly? That's just really hard to believe. I suppose they might have been scared, that there's no way to share the information about the outside world without them being killed for their crimes, but still. That's just my conjecture. It really felt like a lot of shit was ignored so we can have our big battle with everyone on the same side.
Thank you for these posts anon
That and there were very few interactions between warriors and EMA so the reveal was always poor, the anime tried to play it up but it's still lacking imo
It looks more like a constitutional monarchy I think, since Historia still appears as a figurehead on government affairs.
The series ends on a fatalistic note, which can give you a feel of emptiness at the end of it, but it still manages to deliver the author's overall message with the story if I have to be honest.
It could also be that you just wanted to see more about the story I think, which I think is a common sentiment in the fandom.
Cute Hisu!!!
but it still manages to deliver the author's overall message with the story if I have to be honest.
What is the overall message? Please spell it out to me. I'm not trying to set it up to me but if you were to ask me what the series was about, in a greater sense, I don't really know what I would say. "Struggle forever and then die alone"?
I know I asked this above, but I assume not everyone read my wall of text and I really want to know this:
Did Ymir die "offscreen" in the manga too? Calling her a fan favourite might have been a bit too much, but people did like her and thought she was cool and fun with Christa/Historia. And she just disappears one day and the next time we see her titan it's someone else. Again, another death that felt very undignified, she deserved better.
Vast majority have moved on
You should've seen the pure copium these threads were on during the last stretch of the manga
They came up with wild theories just to cope with the fact that snk was going to end in a trainwreck
My favourite was fake memories theory
The original series was supposed to end with ymir revealing the outside world but isayama decided to extend the story after it got popular
That is why her character makes zero sense in retrospect
Oh. That's a bummer.
Zeke is literally me btw
Thank you for saying that. I just wanted to sort out my thought a bit.
It's okay
Shame though because /snk/ discussions pretty much stopped after a year or so when ch139 dropped
Who's your favourite Shingeki?
There was just no way to write around a character that knew everything and had no reason not to share that info
nta but Hisu
Her design is unique and cute. Shame about her lack of screentime
"All strugles are in vain, but nonetheless, you should strive to do what you feel is right"
That's how I would put it I think.
Give me money for my onsen
I really like Armin, but that's probably just my narcissism talking because I'm a nerdy blonde manlet too. And I also really like Eren... liked I guess.
Though, funny thing I want to mention about that. Before the final season, I would have said 100% that one of the strengths of the series is the fact that Eren (and Mikasa to a lesser extent) are psychopaths. He has a bunch of typical shonen protagonist traits, short fuse, hot headed, fights for his friend, a little dumb, etc. but I thought the fact that he is really borderline psychotic in his obsession with murdering every titan was really unique. It was refreshing and fun and I also loved how this was reflected in the way he fights, no self-preservation, biting, crawling across the ground with a wrecked body, it was awesome. So, much to my own surprise, when he truly turned into a psychopath in the finale season I really hated it. And I guess it was interesting to reflect a bit, to see why this portrayal didn't work as well as previously. I suppose you still need your protagonist to have at least sympathetic motives if he's a total psycho.
I also really liked Levi and was sad to see him do pretty much nothing the entire final season. Hange was really fun too but she was always the type of character that's gonna die and her death felt verysuperficial - really, you're gonna make a difference as one guy stopping a bunch of colossals? And then she takes out like 5 by herself which begs the question, is this rumbling really so unstoppable? Maybe just bust out your swords instead... but that's another story I guess.
Did you check:
-The OVAs? (and associated lost girl/no regrets mangas)
-School caste bonus by Isayama?
-The levi prequel
-snk Before the fall manga?
-The Junior high manga and anime + Marley academy
-The chibi and chibi 4koma spin offs?
-The live action movies?
-The musical?
...
fake memories theory
That was a massive cope for all those continuity errors
I watched all the OVAs, but have not read any associated manga. Like I said, I dropped the original manga around the coup d'etat arc (though I'm tempted to go back to it if only to see if the transition to post-timeskip felt as awkward as it did in the anime).
I don't think I checked out any of these other things. I think I watched like a handful of episodes of the school setting thing back when it came out, but I don't think I liked it very much.
Cute and canons
The one true EM
I am interested in all theories and copes.
Like I stopped, back when I was still in the loop the only big theory was time travel shenangigans based on the very first chapter.
gabi saying she never learned how to ride a horse then 1 chapter later she's riding one
jacket of the Survey corp member killed by gabi kept changing everytime to different military branches
Levi regrowing his fingers
eren's pants sewed back
Just the ones I remember kek
Eren being the father, genociding the whole world, and returning home to his family after lifting the curse would have been kino
but have not read any associated manga
They're a bit more detailled (a lot more for Mikasa's), recommand reading them if you liked Levi's/annie's/mikasa's ova, also they're better drawn than the manga
but I don't think I liked it very much.
Understandable, tho the manga version is very different and IMO actually funny at times.
There are also, notably, a compilation of ghostwritten short stories that are semi-canon, and non-canon audio dramas by the voice actors.
Based and checked
Here's one The cope was that all of these continuity errors were because eren had already launched the rumbling and accessed the founder and put everyone in a fake dream and everything would be revealed once they wake up from this dream
Here's one tooI think it was called akatsuki no requiem
It basically followed the Eternal champion novel with erekose and the eldren
Checked
Cute Hisu!!
Also one more "superficial" complaint - the action wasn't all that good in the end? Or was that just me?
If you asked me about the "peak" action sequences, I would say the fights over Shiganshina. I think it most strongly resembled the "initial fantasy" of the series, of human fighting overwhelming enemies, using their wits to beat them. The armor titan was taken out by the scout squad, the colossal titan by Armin and Eren's ruse. Sure there was a tital involved, but ultimately Eren was a human and cut Berthold out. It really delivered on this core fantasy, it was awesome.
Final season wasn't all bad, I really enjoyed the sequence of Eren in Marley. Being faced with a new titan once again, it was cool to see the team try to figure out a way, protect Eren, all that classic good shit.
But after that? The action felt very underwhelming. And the "final battle" did not deserver that label imo, no matter how many old titans you throw onto the screen. It never got me pumped.
They butchered my waifu mikasa so I dropped it, simple as.
And I ain't reading all dat.
You're not alone, the final battle was underwhelming because of the ridiculous plot armour
I need to edit Hisu out of that pic
I remember that a lot of people were refusing to believe that the hobo in marley arc was eren
also a lot of people refused to believe the Grim reminder 2.0 theories (that would end up being proven right).
There were lots of contrivied theories about the path chapters, I forgot so many of them, it's sad, my memories of the SnK franchise and its fandom are slipping away...
Lot of cope about the what am I to you too.
Come to think about it, OP might have also lost the Dogren and Catgekis fan art release.
I'm sorry OP, but that was epic and the best thing that came out after the ending in my opinion. Perhaps some kind anon could share some of it because currently I have none.
Grim reminder 2.0 theories
What was that about? By the name, I would suspect it had something to do with Eren basically turning into precisely what he hated as a kid, a titan just killing innocent people for no apparent reason? Yeah I had trouble believing that too...
Lot of cope about the what am I to you too.
That sounds funy. Why did Mikasa not confess there, anyway?
Which way eldian man?
I missed everything yes.
It was just the name for the prediction that Eren would attack Liberio, there was a lot of polarisation over whether it would happen or not.
Mikasa was a bit shy and in denial over her feelings.
I see. Well like I said, I can't blame anyone for being in denial about that. Eren killing a bunch of kids, especially eldian ones, was completely out of character.
The more I think about, the worse it gets in a way? Like, I try to rationalise it. He had all this knowledge of the future which guided him or whatever, but no fucking way the Eren of old would just accept that "this is the way it has to be". This braindead idiot would bash his head into a wall until it breaks instead of accepting his fate to turn into Mega Hitler.
But apparently not, I guess...
I liked the mock chapter this anon did , makes laugh every time
A classic
There's that whole discussion about how Isayama maybe decided to change the direction of eren's character after reading (or watching?) the Himeanole manga around 2016 or so, search on desuarchive or just google, I don't remember the specifics but that made some quite convincing arguments.
Sex with Lynne
lol that's pretty good
It appears people did not like "the paths"
hm now that this brought it up... the worm really did just die somehow, huh
Every time I see one of these I just finished watching the anime but *insert rant*, I just assume it's an excuse for autistic baiting
Nice blog post about your feelings btw, but I think you should stick with reddit since they actually allow you to ramble on mindlessly in their posts
I simply felt like writing down my thoughts on the show. But thanks for the reply I guess.
the imtelligent titans were both inevitable and a core part of the premise in isayama's mind. He made no secret that Muv Luv Alternative was his biggest influence. From day 0 he concieved of titans as both alien invaders and also organic mech suits to be piloted.
And when you keep that in mind, the logic of the last arc is more visible. The titan wyrm is like the alien queen in this scenario. If Eren wipes out the rest of humanity, the aliens have succeeded in conquering Earth. But if he just fucks off, the war between humans and aliens will never end. at least not in his friends lifetimes. But he figures out that if he acts like he's fully committed, and goes for the attempt while goading his friends, they will succeed in killing him and the alien queen that now lives inside his body, and this will not only save humanity but also rid his friends of their own alien parasite infections. in other words total human victory over the aliens, just at a very very steep cost.
Anyone had the tumblr Armin fan analisys of Armin's role in timeskip? I think OP might find it interesting
There
sadly that tumblr account seems to have been purchased/replaced...
web.archive.org
This is a nice idea, would be cool if this was in any way reflected in the story. That worm shit is so underdevelpoed it once again makes me wonder what the point is, why is it even there?
And I don't mean to imply the intelligent titans were a mistake, just that many of the things I would say are issues come from a fundamental inability to explain why intelligent beings would possibly do the things the titans are doing. The jewish blood guilt is a big stretch even if you ignore the improbability of the entire world running on explicit discrimination during a victorian-era earth (humanism rose to prominence in our history around the 1900s). The way I see it, so much of the clusterfuck of the finale comes from trying to balance all these things. Need a reason for the titans to do crazy shit > it's some blood feud and they have to infilitrate you to get the magic titan that unleashes nukes on the world. Okay but we still want Reiner & friends to be somewhat sympathetic despite killing like half a million people > just following orders. Okay that means we need to establish a military and world order that is extremely racist and cruel. But oh no such order would probably deserve to be crushed under the rumbling > uuuuh genocide is just wrong yknow? Just accept your place as the world's punishing back and give up your titan nukes so we can conquer your island and exploit your resources. You don't like this? Tough shit, go kill Eren. It doesn't add up, at least not in a way that I consider satisfying.
I will check this out, thanks.