Does anyone else notice that the weird trend of people reactionary and unnecessarily close-minded and harsh towards...

Does anyone else notice that the weird trend of people reactionary and unnecessarily close-minded and harsh towards certain storytelling elements, tropes or concepts?
One of the biggest ones that I can think of is the concept of grey morality, people wanting stories to be mostly black and white with very little nuance. Freiren is the biggest example of this that I can think of.

Yea. The reverse also happens. What's your point, friend?

Stop posting this you stupid fafgot.

Frieren is the only reason I made this shit thread

FTFY

Didn't you guys have a melty about attack on titan for being too gray before the ending?

I really, really don't like Frieren demons. Neat idea with a incompetent execution.

the only people who buy into humans being black & white believe american ww2 propaganda that Japan & Germany were uniquely evil enough to justify the Hiroshima genocide.
Inb4:
let's ask Koreans about what they did in the Jeju genocide or when they took Vietnamese comfort women. Were they nuked for that? Did America declare war on Japan in 1931.
Kill yourself faux moralist cuck. Frieren is less black & white than your actual worldview.

Part of the entire problem with the series' characterization of demons is that being a sociopath (which demons essentially are) doesn't necessarily make someone murderously evil. Just because demons don't experience love or empathy themselves doesn't mean they're incapable of observing that humans dislike it when you kill people, or realizing that murder will turn humans against them, or even deciding for themselves that murder is wrong on an intellectual level even if they have no gut aversion to it.

The series tells us that demons are just monsters and animals, but animals (and other monsters) don't behave like that. It says that demons lack empathy, but their characterization is more like demons have the Evil Gene and are cursed by an evil deity such that their reasoning and understanding of the world inevitably misleads them into evil, even when they are trying to avoid it, and even when it's completely self-destructive and self-defeating for their goals.

It's frustrating because the show presents itself as nuanced and clever elsewhere but when it comes to demons it's just "yeah they're Always Chaotic Evil" with a justification that simply doesn't make sense. Like, if we were shown that demons had an insatiable desire to kill humans it would make sense, but they don't? It's just that the writer has apparently decided that lacking empathy means you will inevitably snap and murder people eventually even if it's based on a misunderstanding.

OP wants colors. Let's make a colorful thread.

It's gray after the ending too.

When first introduced I had a different impression of them.
Them being emotionless evil beings that's only drive is to cause humanity misery is a chilling concept on it's own.
And Frieren treats them as such but in reality they really aren't.
Series says they are deceitful and use language to manipulate humans. And then they all make dumb mistakes, get get deceived themselves at every turn and have the most illogical weakness for the kind of being they were set up to be. (aaaaaa she's hiding her power level?!)

By this point i think this is just an forced attempt to force Frieren discussion to be deep.
It would explain why this thread keeps coming back.

Go, Irodorangers!
youtube.com/watch?v=pp95Uoa7xXg

Grey morality doesn't exist, it only means "everyone fucked in this story", no saints, no righteous only sininful scoundrels around doing fucked shit. There should be Good and Evil people in between them who can or can't be saved

No, it's in color

Bump

One of the biggest ones that I can think of is the concept of grey morality

Yeah it’s religioustards
They are also the complaints about “nihilism”

no... the villains can't just be bad people because... erm... well... they just can't OK!!!

Nice reductionism into strawman.

well thats when the chirping started when it was at the peak popularity and eren looked to do a genocide

But enough about the OP.

It was payback for the pearl harbor genocide

It's not reductionism into strawman when it's actually happening.

Just wait for season 2, you all do realize that the first 28 episodes where not the entire show right? There are much more story arcs, as well as much more demon content, to explore in the manga and in the upcoming season.

strawman

No argument

genalpha who were spoonfed by watching series where who won the shipping wars was already known and who retroactively knew who to consolewarfag for considering FMAB are now having an eternal melty about Frieren.

doesn't mean they're incapable of observing that humans dislike it when you kill people,

You think they care? the last demon that tried to understand humans did so by killing humans.

The series tells us that demons are just monsters and animals, but animals (and other monsters) don't behave like that. It says that demons lack empathy, but their characterization is more like demons have the Evil Gene and are cursed by an evil deity such that their reasoning and understanding of the world inevitably misleads them into evil, even when they are trying to avoid it, and even when it's completely self-destructive and self-defeating for their goals.

Evil Gene. do you seriously want that? this show bores me to tears and that sounds like something the editor would make the mangaka do because aura body pillows were selling out.

the Evil Gene and are cursed by an evil deity such that their reasoning and understanding of the world inevitably misleads them into evil

They are not evil and not even Frieren considers them evil, they are animals and they predate humans. It is that simple, they evolved separately and have a different evolutional tree, thus have an entirely different mentality altogether. They essentially just learned to talk in the same way humans learned to make duck calls in order to lure ducks for us to shoot. You can't consider them evil but at the same time that doesn't mean you have to like them or what they do, or you have to try and understand them. All you really need to know is that they are predators and you are prey and because they are so fundamentally alien and different compared to every other race they can't be fundamentally communicated with. It's either you or them and they will act on instinct and have pattern recognition in the way that they will use things they recognize as to make people stop attacking them to make people stop attacking them or lower their guard.

be me

like subversive stories, but think a classic good vs evil is cool too

people completely flip out at the concept of 'evil demons', it is actually the opposite of what OP is saying happens

merely defend these stories

OP writes aka. 'strawmanning' the position in every way possible

Wild beasts are not intelligent and able to communicate with other species. Wild beasts do not understand human morality or strictly adhere to their own. Wild beasts do not possess all the components necessary to adopt human morals. Demons do. They are incomparable to animals
Demons being intelligent, emotional, and morally capable means they have the ability to choose *what morality they follow*. They should have the ability to choose not to be evil. To choose not to hunt, since they do not need to. The show never explains why they can’t in a way that wouldn’t also affect humans in the show who can (and do) overcome their biological nature and "achieve the impossible".

That's literally what you're saying, OP. Cope.

no grey morality allowed

binary thinking, common in brainwashed normie suits and hard autism, reason for normie suits = they've been thought to think like that, reason for hard autism = it's hard for them to think in any other way due to them needing to categorize everything to make sense of them

No, I'm saying that the series does black and white morality badly, but when people try criticizing this aspect, people immediately jump on them and strawman them with

"You just want morally grey!"

It's also a part of this weird reactionary conservatism that seems to surround storytelling now.

they can't be fundamentally communicated with.

Also, if you want an example of the story contradicting itself about demons, pic related is the best example.

Point: We are told talking to demons is pointless as they cannot be reasoned with.
Counterpoint: Himmel and Solitar negotiated with each other. They came to an agreement and followed through with it.

This by itself proves that peace with demons is possible, and treating them as a pure evil race that cannot be reasoned with as wrong.

Anon Babble‘s aot fanbase was a reactionary hotbed

These people are genuinely trying to do revisionism as if there isn't a massive reactionary shift against certain tropes.

yes, there's a reactionary shift against good vs evil trope

before: bro those are some evil orcs let's slay them >yeah ok

now: nooOO! stop! you didn't make them morally gray? holy heckerino.. you just can't!!

btw are they truly provably 'evil' in a metaphysical sense? until you answer this you can't kill the orcs aaaaa

Do you seriously not see the massive amount of tradcaths that are now infesting nerdy hobbies and pushing the type of reactionary shit we see now? No matter how well the themes are done; people will talk shit about it.

A guy made a simple video talking about how the black and white morality of the demon creatures was written poorly. This ended up with him being sent death threats, called slurs and and hated on for months.

youtu.be/hi8ZhcGD4uo?si=EaUrLIC1HuijOgpS

The majority of the hatred was being pushed by reactionary right wingers and tradcaths. It's an epidemic now.

Grey morality is just sophistry to justify evil. Theoretical excuses devised by the guilty or their associates to avoid accountability and appropriate punishment. An evil act is evil regardless of motive, circumstance and even intent.

There is nothing wrong with demon in Frieren, if anything

monster/devil/demon being misunderstood or morally grey

Is overplayed and most of the times, shit.

Yeah and where the hell did this shit come from? they all learned it from watching those idiots on tumblr.

Actually there is. Frieren is a badly done example of black and white morality because the series never explains why the demons can't change beyond some weird biological determinism and are often shown having traits that the series says that they don't have.

Is that so? It's been a while since I've read the manga, do you have like an example or two of them displaying traits they should not have displayed?

For example, they claim that demons can't feel emotions, but there's clearly emotions being displayed several times when human beings aren't around or to their own detriment. Like demons calling Frieren a bitch or getting mad at her when she kills them.

Also, stuff like this

Lmao is this tradfag cope, surely tradfags don't have the ability to think for themselves and blindly follow what they see others do then

I see, I am fairly certain that there was a point made that they do not experience emotions like humans do but they can imitate them in order to deceive, but perhaps I am misremembering. About your negotiation point, I kinda stopped reading at that point so I can't comment, but it seems like a contradiction.

Oh funny that's what righties say about anti trump and progressive rhetoric. the more things change the more they stay the same.

and if you're going to pretend to be right wing, actually try. you're one 'ya'll just don't get it!' from being a redditor.

This.

All this yap when the demons aren't even human adjacent. They are literally animals that don't have a good or evil in them. What they do to humans is inherently evil but they themselves don't possess that dynamic because they are acting on their animal nature.

Wild beasts are not intelligent and able to communicate with other species. Wild beasts do not understand human morality or strictly adhere to their own. Wild beasts do not possess all the components necessary to adopt human morals. Demons do. They are incomparable to animals.

The worst thing about this series is the Himmelwank. The whole point was about Frieren learning from her mistake and having a second chance with a new party, which takes a backseat to wank Himmel some more. Trash.

They are incomparable to animals

Human beings are animals my nigga, we come from there. It's not that far off to assume that another species would evolve to be able to have those same characteristics yet vastly different from regular humans, in fact it's a staple of a lot of alien stories in general.

They should have the ability to choose not to be evil

It's not evil for them though? They don't think it's evil to kill and eat humans, it's natural for them. A dolphin doesn't think that torturing a seal is evil and they are very intelligent, it doesn't register as evil for them. You think demons are evil in Frieren, the demons themselves do not think they are evil nor does anything they do register as an evil act.

treating them as a pure evil race that cannot be reasoned with as wrong.

I don't treat them as an evil race though, I treat them as animals and beings with their own instincts and biology, the only people calling them evil are you people. Why do you always say they are evil when they are quite literally just hardwired different? Do you call lions evil for hunting for their food? Do you call dolphins evil for their hunting tactics against seals, dolphins are highly intelligent by the way.

they do not experience emotions like humans do but they can imitate them in order to deceive, but perhaps I am misremembering

There was a point in episode 7 where that is stated yes, they can imitate human emotions for manipulation of humans and to preserve their own lives.

Demons were traditionally evil. No redeemable characteristics, degenerates and took what they wanted.

They are the uber villians!

If you want gay ass demons acting like humans, go watch that dmc shit on suckflix!

I don't mind black and white morality stories. But Frieren's demons are complete shit as villains, they've lost every battle so far and have no depth

Inb4 muh match

Ah yes, I'm excited to see the same plot for the millionth time.

Linie is always a good reason for a thread.

Reminder that OP is a seething tranny who has been upset about the unambiguous morality of Frieren (and its popularity) for months now. Their kind simply can't tolerate the fact that some people are better than others.

they lost every battle so far

They only lose to Frieren, which let's face it is a '"mary sue"....

The majority of the hatred was being pushed by reactionary right wingers and tradcaths. It's an epidemic now.

I knew that you're a fucking tranny trying to make this into Anon Babbleshit all along. Thanks for blatantly confirming it.

I don't watch youtube. But *you're* making videos to attack a series attempting to do bnw morality. That alone disproves your narrative.

You're saying people are opposed to grey morality. If that was the case, there would be videos of people attacking series with this grey morality, like Misfits or whatever. Instead, you find the opposite. Someone attacking a series with bnw morality and others disagree with that guy specifically. and you expect me to follow this drama. you're retarded.

shes not a mary sue. shes just very old.

she has lots of negative traits, like sleeping in and falling for mimics.

FUCK DEMONS

if its Linie I will

Commie cocksuckers at funimation cancelled Interspecies Reviewers because "male gaze bad". They woould stop using gendered language and use they/them pronouns (Francois in Stone is a woman but adress her as a guy because she's a butler first) because "troons feelings may be hurt (Japs don't talk like that). They even threw made up dialog disparaging gamers in Prison School".
You are a disingenuous twat and a liar! Go fuck yourself, fag!

That doesn't disprove that there's a massive reactionary trend to be against black and white morality because one person made a video criticizing it.

You're flat out ignoring the points in my argument and only repeating what the Frieren series says about the matter. The demons are not like wild beasts. Wild beasts are not intelligent and able to communicate with other species. Wild beasts do not understand human morality or strictly adhere to their own. Wild beasts do not possess all the components necessary to adopt human morals. Demons do. They are incomparable to animals.

Just because demons don't experience love or empathy themselves doesn't mean they're incapable of observing that humans dislike it when you kill people, or realizing that murder will turn humans against them, or even deciding for themselves that murder is wrong on an intellectual level even if they have no gut aversion to it.

there's a massive reactionary trend to be against black and white morality

against black and white morality

NTA but did you structure this sentence correctly? Did you think this sentence through? because you do realize you're saying the reactionary position here is to be against black and white morality i.e black and white morality is being attacked by reactionaries (assumedly those who are for grey morality)

I'm definitely finding that critiques are getting less and less rational, I fear the average anon on this board is losing their ability to think meaningfully on their own about storytelling.

There's a massive trend to be reactionary against grey morality, yes.