Has thousands of noble phantasms and legendary weapons in his vault

Makai Tensho

What is that?

Fate is just amwf propaganda.

FSN has female king Arthur give her virginity to a Japanese high school boy

Medea instantly forgets her marriage to the Greek hero Jason to get bred by a Japanese kungfu wobbly fist master

Medusa gets wet thinking about Japanese dick

Tohsaka ancestor implied to have married and impregnated an Edelfelt Sister from the 3rd Grail War

Kotomine's white wife literally dies trying to fix him

FZ has a prestigious German family hire a Japanese mage to impregnate their crown jewel, he also happens to have a devout assistant who happily serves as his stress relief

FApoc has the queen of ancient kingdom fall in love with a literallywho Japanese

FE has a Roman empress fall in love with a Japanese boy

FGO goes hard with this, Japanese teenager/college student/shota is sought after by female knights, goddesses, witches, queens/empresses, etc.

stomaching the terrible character writing j

Examples?

Saber is the bigger one, she goes from a hardass with a soft side to a hopless uwu chivalrous loser.

Nasu's hard-on for foreign magazine models is very cute. Shiki and Shirou are very lucky
Just Saber and her relation to Iskandar and Gilg. I know it's like beating a dead horse at this point but there were far better ways to give her character development that didn't just amount to her being an endless target for shit intentionally rewritten to give her a bad look. If the Fate route could do that much, why couldn't Zero?

Nasu told Urobutcher to write Saber getting the humiliation ritual by Gil and Iskander.
Its in the the interview was in Zero Vol 1.

“Ah. If so, what about getting me to write about the fourth Heaven’s Feel? Something like Fate/zero.”

So… impressive!!

Isn’t this just great? To be honest, I even think this is an idea more wonderful than developing the Hollow game.

Then, we began to discuss about it:

“Speaking of, what is the fourth war about?”

“Hum – Saber getting bullied by Gilgamesh and Alexander!”

I answered unceremoniously.

In my mind, there are two main points in the fourth Heaven’s Feel.

One is Saber’s setback.

King Arthur, who ruled her people as the model human. The selfless and devoted, just and uncorrupted Artoria.

The absolute commander who surpassed mortals, the majestic Gilgamesh.

And the extravert king, whom some called a tyrant, but still held his belief that he’ll bring his people to happiness. The King of Conquerors, Alexander, who ruled the world as a man.

Using the intensive conflict between the three to unravel Saber’s story in Zero.

And the other point is Kiritsugu’s story. I contracted that to him according to his wishes as well. I don’t care about other things anymore.

“I understand. Then I’ll do it according to the way I like it to be. Ah, but I’ll do my best to get the style of the piece close to Fate.”

He is indeed Urobuchi Gen, able to think about TYPE-MOON’s clients.

Copypasta aside, I don't really care about all that. Nasu's not a perfect being and neither are his works.
FSN and FHA are good, even if there are a few hiccups and bumps in their stories. Zero for the most part isn't.
Even if Nasu himself wrote Zero and it had the exact same humiliation ritual, I still wouldn't call it good. Making some amazing stories doesn't mean I have to excuse every one of his mistakes.

That's not a bad thing IMO. To me, parts of F/HA felt less like Fatey. Especially all the jokes making fun of Saber's eating habits got old pretty fast. In contrast though, the Camelot and Avalon le Fae chapters felt as if I was back to the visual novel days.

Also read Mahoyo you fags. It's genuinely magical.

Just Saber and her relation to Iskandar and Gilg. I know it's like beating a dead horse at this point but there were far better ways to give her character development that didn't just amount to her being an endless target for shit intentionally rewritten to give her a bad look. If the Fate route could do that much, why couldn't Zero?

That's just a thing that's specific to the writer of Fate/Zero. He writes cute idealistic young women and then proceeds to write a cruel world that bends and contorts in ways meant to curb stomp their idealism.

For me a lot of that stems from stuff like Apocrypha, Samurai Remnant, Strange Fake and etc.
They all feel divorced from the origin point that was Stay Night to varying degrees, both in subject and in theming. I'd include Prillya in there too but it's so dumb as a concept that it doesn't irritate me as much.
And yeah FHA feels like it prioritizes fanservice over plot at some points. Not in the lewd way but rather in how it treats character interactions. Wouldn't call it a detrimental decision but it certainly prevents it from dethroning FSN as the best VN.

Nasu's hard-on for foreign magazine models

Which ones?

I was mainly referring to Amanda Dyer, who was the main inspiration for Arcueid in Tsukihime. Wouldn't be surprised if Saber's design was also influenced by models like her

Strong based warrior with a cool vibe and great charisma

It's actually a big loser frustrated by his own shitty decisions that can't but blame past alternative versions of himself to the point he always tries to kill Shiro if he gives signs of walking the same path than him

EMIYA doesn't seem retarded, he is

He has four skill slots, and those ones are best. Even in special situations where you could use others effectively, the end game skills are better.

Most of the ones he has suck

Caladbolg is his biggest destructive attack

Hrunting is a good homing missile

K&B are melee weapons he's comfortable with and he's managed to develop his own moves for

Rho Aias is a shield that's very effective at blocking ranged attacks

It's basically the best picks of his arsenal assembled into a streamlined toolkit. Having thousands of options doesn't matter if you end up with analysis paralysis. He might be a Servant, but he still has human thought capability and has to concentrate to search through his catalog and pick out what he wants. Even Shirou had to limit himself with his much smaller arsenal to quickly pull out his weapon of choice.

Archer can't spam his np as much as he likes, that would cost a fuckton of man. Those 3/4 he sues are the best cost/benefits

I wouldn't say that. Makai Tensho was more of a gauntlet against undead legends from Japan specifically. Jubei's quest to right the wrongs of Amakusa Shirou and Musashi has some parallels to Emiya Shirou's own quest, but they're delivered in very different ways and have hard thematic divergences. However, it is funny that F/GO had a story chapter that was basically Makai Tensho.

However, it is funny that F/GO had a story chapter that was basically Makai Tensho.

Which one?

K&B had no owners so when he uses them, it's 100% his own skill.

Even FHA feels like fanfic. It has zero character consistency, with characters flip flopping between being serious characters and being comedic relief moeblobs whose entire personality is an archetype every other scene.

Rin in particular got the worst treatment as FHA made her a generic tsundere and that has been her character since then.

he wishes to become a time-traveler jannie who goes around cleaning shit for free

doing it for free is actually part of his wish

after a million years of cleaning shit he gets tired

he becomes suicidal and throws a tantrum about it

He was really immature.

Nasu's hard on for foreign models

That's Takeuchi, you goof. Nasu doesn't care for Saber. Nasu's into Sakura.

Tohsaka ancestor implied to have married and impregnated an Edelfelt Sister from the 3rd Grail War

That was her Grandfather bro, it wasn't that far in the past

Takeuchi likes foreign fashion. The models are incidental. Araki was into some very specific Italian models for a while there, though.

Also read Mahoyo you fags

thanks for reminding me to finish it finally. I have like 2 chapters left and I've been putting it off for over a year

Araki was into some very specific Italian models for a while there

Like who?

>he wishes to become a time-traveler jannie who goes around cleaning shit for free

Why did he wish for that?

Shimousa

Because Emiya is the goodest of good boys.

Unironically, mental illness. Shirou is a fundamentally broken person and Kiritsugu's idealism imprinted on him in the worst way possible. There's a reason he goes around being a tool for people in his everyday life prior to and during Stay Night. He just wants to help people because the expression of genuine happiness and relief he saw on Kiritsugu's face when he found Shirou inspired him to seek that same feeling he lacked for the rest of his life. He chose to take up the role his adoptive father could no longer aspire to for the sake of seeking satisfaction.

If only he used his time travel violence to kill rich men.

He wanted to be a hero, which usually means defeating evil and saving the biggest amount of innocent lives possible. So he surrendered his existence to this otherworldly superior force that uses him to keep balance so he always gets sent to timelines were the world could be destroyed without his intervention.
In paper sounds good, with him being like an eternal hero protecting the world and humanity.
In reality, it means he is more often than not, just going around massacring people. Quite often innocents, under that typical trolley scenario

Kill 1 to save a hundred.

Kill 100 to save a thousand

Kill 1000 to save millions

And that made him cynical and start hating himself and his initial choice. But he basically ended up expressing all that by being a whiny petty bitch

But the best Fateslop is Case Files?

be sole survivor of a massive mysterious fire that killed your family

continue living with nightmares of the event

have such crippling survivor's guilt that you can't even be happy like a normal person

get taught magecraft incorrectly that hurts to use

get forced to fight in a magic battle to the death whilst still in highschool

somehow survive and go on to wander the world trying to help people

get blamed for instigating a conflict when you just came to seve soup

get hanged to death

spend your afterlife killing people for the sake of the world's balance

is there a character that suffered more?

Normal people aren't happy, moran.

So he surrendered his existence to this otherworldly superior force

How did he find this otherworldly force?

I'm getting sick of this bot.

>get blamed for instigating a conflict when you just came to seve soup

Why was he blamed?

because nobody could believe that somebody would come to an active warzone simply to help people for no reason

can easily reach out to other pseudo servants using Rin as a host

easily give heartfelt and emotional words to give critical damage.

doesn't

Is he retarded?

Ellie from TLOU, as I'm told.

What about Prisma Illya?

Hello Rin, I'm Emiya from the future. These are the enemies and their weaknesses:

also the Holy Grail is useless because it was infected with Angra Manyu

Shirou? I'm you from the future. This is how it's going to play out:

please don't do it becuase it's a shitty deal

hey Saber. The Grail is fake and you can't go back to the past

hi Illya. Kiritsugu loved you very much

hi Caster. Tell Suichirou to marry you, that will make you both happy

*uses Independent Action to kill Kirei and Zouken*

he could solve everything in the very first night

Yeah, he's an idiot.

He smelled bath salts and hallucinated it
How the fuck should I know anon?
Just watch the damn thing yourself

> can easily reach out to other pseudo servants using Rin as a host

How?

>easily give heartfelt and emotional words to give critical damage.

He's too snarky and cynical to do that.

Humanitarian organizations do that.

Master your own skill
Or be jack of all trades losing to superior servants

The decision should be easy

Nasu

Visionary artist

this

use the one with highest offense

use the one with highest defense

use the one that feels the most comfortable

what more do you need?

Characters can only ever be as clever/ smart as their writer

They're an elaborate ploy to deliver food and weapons to various factions in proxy wars. And a tax shelter. They do a lot more harm than good by keeping wars running longer.

what even *is* fate for you to claim that? and you bring up hollow ataraxia lmao, as if nobody could ever match the geniuses that wrote a chuuni story you read as a teen
maybe if the original story wasn't full of wacky exceptions, then there would be a prototypical holy grail war to copy, one that extends beyond basic iconography and then it could be run into the ground via "new generation" sort of spinoffs rather than gacha
but literally every "mechanic" is twisted or exploited or a weird corner case from day 1

archer

gilgamesh

rule breaker

assassin(s)

servant transfers

literally everything involving kotomine

not to mention the base conceit that heroic spirits ought to hide their true nature is already abandoned by UBW, not that it matters when all the heroes are wacky anime renditions with questionable resemblance to the original

He doesn't get perfect memories due to still being filtered through the HGW summoning system, still

please don't do it becuase it's a shitty deal

He doesn't care to help Shirou. He's spiteful and petty over himself having been stupid enough to take the deal in the first place. He'd rather punish himself in an extreme act of sadomasochism than try to help his younger self because he just hates himself that much.
He is entirely concerned with his plan to fuck himself over or at least bring him to despair over his own ideals. He's just half keeping up an act to play the part of Servant and half genuinely having a hard time dedicating himself to his own plan because he knows it's ultimately pointless. He's still Shirou at heart, but jaded and fractured.
Just walking around telling people things won't help anyway. It's not like literally anyone will believe him because any proof he could offer will come off as circumstantial at best or a scheme at worst. He's an enemy combatant in a fight to the death. No one has any reason to trust his word.

Incorrect, because you can write a more clever or intelligent character by just having them arrive at more thorough conclusions than you would in a shorter time (but not impossibly shorter). If you're of middling intelligence, then you can research and spend far greater periods of time to come up with a solution to a complex, short-term problem and have the character come to the conclusion with a believable amount of effort faster. If you aren't quick-witted, you can still write a character that is because you don't need to develop the same sense of urgency or calm under pressure that the character in question would naturally exhibit.

this wall of words (me) is for

but literally every "mechanic" is twisted or exploited or a weird corner case from day 1

Almost as though that's the entire point and that, thematically, the importance lies elsewhere and the Holy Grail War itself is just a backdrop to the actual character drama and machinations of forces lurking just beyond the protagonists' view.
The whole thing being a farce isn't a bug, it's THE feature.

Nah, they'll still be as dumb as their writer. Its why a lot of "Genius" characters in modern media are more like wizards than anything else, because the people writing them don't understand how some one with actual intelligence thinks

because the people writing them don't understand how some one with actual intelligence thinks

How do you?

The whole thing being a farce isn't a bug, it's THE feature.

Somehow people keep getting through the entire story and not picking up on t his. It's weird since they say it to your directly. It's not some subtle thing you need to figure out for yourself.

Only one servant and master duo can be victorious.

You may be able to substitute quick wit that way, but not smart solutions nor proper formal logic.
Former is too broad of an issue to make any sort of guidelines, which is why you may find characters doing or not doing stuff in very contrived ways. It's not about making "right" choices, but making "best" choices. A writer is both problem-maker and problem-solver, so it's very tempting to give a character foreknowledge of a god.
Latter is about how to cover your bases, since humans are much better at breaking apart systems than they are at creating them. No amount of time and caveats can salvage a fundamentally unbalanced system, so you also gotta know when to make things vague and when to get into technicalities.

How do those 2 characters relate?

am i the only one who got the point of this post was just mocking how fakers (archer) are hacks compared to the originals (gil) or was i overthinking it

firstly: grail war is not a backdrop, but a framework, it's a thing that facililates drama and puts characters into direct opposition, not simply a setting that exists just for story coherence (like daily school life and the prior relationships shirou had with rin and sakura there)
secondly: "it's meant to be bad on purpose" is always an excuse, you know full well nasu loves autistic mechanical interactions, otherwise he wouldn't put skills and alignments everywhere, the first seiba fight wouldn't boil down to MY HIGH ABILITY SCORES ALLOW ME TO MITIGATE SPECIAL ABILITY OF YOUR SINGLE-TARGET NOBLE PHANTASM, you can't just pretend that it's "not the important part" when so much time is spent rambling about magic rules

That's why I say sufficient research and time spent working out a problem can mostly substitute for "true" intelligence. There's a vast well of human knowledge and ingenuity to pull from at any given time and there are bound to be people who have thought through the particulars of similar real or theoretical scenarios.

It's not about making "right" choices, but making "best" choices

Not necessarily, as even intelligent and/or quick-witted people won't always make the best choice in a given scenario. It is tempting to give them godlike information bordering on prescience to cover for this. However, I want to apply what you said about the latter point here in that having them employ actions that cover as many bases as possible while taking the fewest risks is oftentimes sufficient to convey quick-wit in a given situation. Quick-wit coupled with intelligence is most often just about covering your bases and minimizing unnecessary risk with the information available to you while leaving some leeway for unknown factors. Even just acknowledging the known unknowns and the probability of complete unknowns can go a long way.
As points out, making them out to be wizards because they arrive at the perfectly correct solution the first time or without any particular hiccups is when you enter hack territory.
As for

smart solutions nor proper formal logic

You can farm the aforementioned well of knowledge to help your own lacking capabilities as a writer to a degree. You do have to possess a modicum of intelligence to appreciate the logic and apply it across different situations or to know when to abandon faulty logic once new information becomes apparent.
A dumb person can't write a smart person because they don't have the capability to grasp the resources available to them, but someone of middling intelligence can write someone more intelligent than themselves by taking caution against the traps that do exist in depicting such a thing.

The biggest thing that irritated me about Archer is him using engrish. It doesn't make sense and sounds cringe.

No, I also got it.
I guess the average anon is just a little slow and/or more predisposed to arguing rather than discussing, so most took the most controntational read on that post.

it's meant to be bad on purpose

This isn't what I said at all. Rather the characters within the story have incomplete information about the scenario and are working off of it. No one has the complete story of the Grail War aside from Zouken to a degree, and even his knowledge is flagging.

you know full well nasu loves autistic mechanical interactions, otherwise he wouldn't put skills and alignments everywhere

He just likes RPGs and wanted to include stats as a touchstone and loose justification for certain things, but we're told that's mostly a thing to Shirou because that's a version of the concept he can grasp. Rin sees things differently than he does. They were replicated across other entries in the franchise because they're also easy to grasp for the viewer/player. However, the story itself was never about the Servants or the Holy Grail War itself, which is why they're mostly just flavor to give you a relative idea of how the pieces on the board interact.
"The rules exist to be broken" is dialed up to the nth degree because a lot of the rules aren't even really rules.

grail war is not a backdrop, but a framework

It's very much both as the HGW gets ignored several times for interpersonal drama that takes place in front of it. It's most apparent in Heaven's Feel where the war itself largely doesn't matter aside from being a thing that sort of creeps along quietly. Most people don't even realize that Rider technically won the war along with Sakura because the war itself plays second fiddle to the struggles of the characters themselves. It's the initial framing device and call to action, but the importance of the event itself fades over the course of the story along with the diminishing roles of the Servants.

the VNs are trash
Deal with it, slice of life faggot.

I'm a secondary who never read the VN

Archer/Shirou have their own preferences towards weapons and as such there are certain ones he gravitates towards using. Shirou, specifically, basically only uses weapons he's seen Archer use, and it even takes him a bit of reasoning to realize he can use Rule Breaker to save Sakura (and Saber Alter) in HF. There are many NPs the both of them use in F/SN F/HA and F/E that vary depending on the situation. This is why Shirou uses Rho Aias after remembering it exists, uses Nine Lives against Berserker, etc.
This is similar to Gilgamesh who has certain treasures he cherishes more, but also a lot of absolute trash he doesn't care about. But Gil has full knowledge of ever weapon in GoB, what its uses are and often times how it evolved into a different NP over time.

How you can twin swords without will to make them?

lies

Avenger should've banged Bazett to establish supreme superiority over Kirei.

He did though?

nani?!

i very much dislike "don't you get it, X was never the point!" sort of rhetoric, it always sounds like wanting to have your cake and eat it too
if that is indeed authorial intent, then it's indulgent to the point of insulting, or nothing but shameless bait to showcase your OCs on the back of a more popular concept insert a joke about HF here, which is hack shit either way
i don't wanna get mired in details, so my bottom line is that it's delusional to pretend that nitty-gritty mechanics are of lesser relevance, when they permeate every aspect of story and presentation
i am not saying WELL WHY DIDN'T ANYONE EVER WIN THE GRAIL AND GET THE REAL WISH HE EARNED? but that author should set the rules for a reason other than rugpulling the reader

they were made because somebody wanted to make them

Well, duh. Everything handmade is made because someone wanted to make it. What a fucking hack

He doesn't compare to the genuine article

Is this samefag thread?

I also (somehow) managed to lock myself out of that Eclipse scene on my first playthrough.

No, you're lying.
You filthy liar.
How dare you lie to me about something so kino?