Who would you say is the more iconic Naruto villain between Orochimaru and Madara?

Who would you say is the more iconic Naruto villain between Orochimaru and Madara?

Madara, Orochimaru got turned into a meme in Shippuden.

Ahem

Madara has more staying power AND recency bias on his side. Orochimaru's gravitas was completely gone by mid-Shippuden.

And everyone agrees that that was bullshit and a terrible asspull.
Even the author said so himself. That gives Madara a iron-clad defense.
Meanwhile Orochimaru kept getting dabbing on properly and legitimate ways by many people countless times. There's no comparison.

Definitely not as bad as Orochimaru losing his arms, dying at the hands of Sasuke, succumbing to the itachiwank and getting sucked into susanno vacuum cleaner. And I'm not even gonna mention the Boruto era.

They're both shit, but at least Orochimaru was interesting

Hanabi solos both

And everyone agrees that that was bullshit and a terrible asspull.

And it still canonically happened.

Even the author said so himself.

When did he do that?

Meanwhile Orochimaru kept getting dabbing on properly and legitimate ways by many people countless times.

I don't see how that matters. Frieza also jobbed numerous times and he's still the most iconic DB villain.

When did he do that?

He said something along the lines of how he couldn't think of a way for Naruto and Sauske to beat Madara

Definitely not as bad as

It's literally the worst part of the series.
Madara was already a bad character, this just made him pointless

Orochimaru was a real villain. Madara was a joke about having a big power level

And it still canonically happened.

No one is saying otherwise.

When did he do that?

That Kishi himself said that he made Madara so strong he couldn't think of a legitimate way to have him lose.

I don't see how that matters.

Execution matters. Crazy.

Frieza also jobbed numerous times and he's still the most iconic DB villain.

And with this same arguments of yours I could say the same for Madara. And with even greater force since Madara's loss was not legit and proper and narratively strong and tight.

You all have functioning brains.

You forgot to quote

I didn't though.

pain

what's the best fan edit/cut that removes filler and padding? i heard naruto kai on nyaa has rough quality.

And with this same arguments of yours I could say the same for Madara.

All I'm saying is that a character having multiple losses doesn't make him less iconic. You brought up how Orochimaru has worse losses than Madara which supposedly makes him less iconic, but I don't think that losing to Itachi or Sasuke is any worse than being backstabbed by Black Zetsu.

I could say the same for Madara

No you can't. Madara was a Gary Stu and the epitome of Uchiha wank.

The manga

Also solo’d by Hanabi.

no animation or sound

And no matter how people like to pretend otherwise Uchihawank is extremely popular and beloved. You could even say it is... iconic.

Obito.

Insane to think that One Piece is moving towards doing the exact inverse of this scene and have the old cursed Saiyanesque badass (Garling) backstab and usurp the inhuman shadow creature (Imu).

Got any actual proof of that?

That Kishi himself said that he made Madara so strong he couldn't think of a legitimate way to have him lose.

What, so Kaguya is weaker than Madara?

Learn to read zoomer faggot

i read the manga from shippuden onward like 15 years ago.

Again, execution.
Madara getting zetsued was a literal asspull. Straight out of the mouth of the author.
Orochimaru kept losing and losing and losing and getting defanged more and more as the series went to the point he even changed sides and is even sending Naruto wedding congratulation videos.
Orochimaru lost all his relevancy. Madara is one of the lynchpinch of the story who remained threatening until the very end, and again, took a literal asspull to defeat.
Meanwhile Orochimaru first loss was fucking Sarutobi, and while three-teaming him with Edo Tensei Hashirama and Tobirama. Meanwhile Madara only ever lost to... motherfucking Hashirama.

I thought Orochimaru will be like Bakura from Yugioh, returning and becoming the final villain.

Uchihawank is extremely popular and beloved

Is it? It's the thing people complain about the most in the series. Just look at the daily's people are already sick of the upcoming Uchiha wank.

Give me proof that Uchihas are popular

You serious now?

moving the goalpost already

Orochimaru couldn't keep up with the powercreep, but Bakura is a better villain than anyone in Naruto.

Bunny milf superior in all ways:

better back story

stronger

doesn't job

never dies

MILF

ayyy lmao pussy

not necessarily "evil" so much as having a different world view

strong mommy energy

sexy

would actually have a good fight against Itachi instead of getting 1-shotted

better back story

She has no back story in the manga other than being the So6P mom.

Guess which imagery is all over in marketing.
Uchiha one? Or snakes?
But sure, pretend Orochimaru is more iconic than Uchihas and the Sharingan lol
What will you say next? That Naruto is actually about le hard work? lmao

Madara is boring and gay. Orochimaru is just the latter, so he wins.

Orochimaru

all over in marketing

Does Naruto even have marketing anymore? It's been over for well past a decade with no new material in sight

Probably Madara in a casual sense, I like Orochimaru much more as a character but like others have said, power level creep was not kind to him in the slightest where as Madara gets the easy hype factor of being THE big dick power level

I wasn't asking about the Uchiha clan in general though. I was asking about their bullshit asspulls and bad writing.

No. That's what fans say. Kishimoto never said that.

Frieza also jobbed numerous times

Canon-wise he only jobbed to future Trunks.

Orochimaru yawning with tears from boredom

Actually, it's because he actually cares about the 3rd

This shit is retarded.

Unlike Madara, had an actual connection to the protagonist too. She's his ancestor, the progenitor of all chakra, and the mother of his prior incarnation. It's like if Yu Yu Hakusho ended with Yusuke fighting Raizen.

She's the ancestor of Naruto and multiple clans such as the Hyuga and Uchiha, the progenitor of all chakra, and the mother of Naruto's prior incarnation. As opposed to Madara who fought in some war that's irrelevant to the main characters in the present.

So she's a plot device. Not a character.

PLEASE don't do this Oda, Imu already barely has any cachet as a villain thanks to being randomly revealed 900 chapters in, don't ruin what little interest the WG has as a villainous organization by doing a stupid rugpull with a villain randomly revealed 1100 chapters in

Don't think about it too hard. The real answer is they were already having discussions about doing a sequel series and the writer wanted to do alien garbage so Kishi agreed to add a lead-in to make it feel less jarring.

Orochimaru kept losing and losing and losing and getting defanged more and more as the series went to the point he even changed sides and is even sending Naruto wedding congratulation videos.

Yeah, you already said that.
And again, look at Frieza. He became such a laughingstock in Z that even that Supreme Kai pussy who was shitting himself against Babidi's henchmen said that he could destroy Frieza by blinking at him. And even then, Frieza still remained extremely iconic even before he came back in RoF.
(ironically enough, both Frieza and Orochimaru are still present in the sequel to their series as ""good guys"" and have gotten exponentially more powerful)

I'm pretty sure she's a character in Naruto.

I mean I'm pretty sure that's mostly because Sasuke is the second main character of the series, not because of Madara.

Deuteragonist

She's the ancestor of Naruto and multiple clans such as the Hyuga and Uchiha

So she isn't the ancestor of ALL the clans in Naruto? Does that mean that clans like Shikamaru's and Shino's came from somewhere else?

Obito should have been the true mastermind and prepared for Madara betraying him

Orochimaru

Is the first long term villain

Betrays everyone.

Wins

Madara

Barely mentioned in the first half.

Gets betrayed by everyone.

Loses

One is dead and the other isn't. One completed their goals and the other hasn't. So who is the bigger villain again?

no personality

no actual back story

no characterization

exits only to be a foil to the protagonist

She's a plot device. May as well be a cyborg. It wouldn't change her at all.

>no personality

>no actual back story

>no characterization

>exits only to be a foil

literally any woman in Naruto

Orochimaru by many landslides.

Orochimaru kept losing and losing and losing and getting defanged more and more

He lost like three times, twice if you count what happened against Sarutobi a draw, and one of those was in a flashback against the single most wanked character in the manga.

Orochimaru first loss was fucking Sarutobi

You mean the guy who was billed as the strongest ninja of all time for the entire first half of the manga?
The only execution problem here is that Kishimoto bloated shit out of proportion and retconned shit in Part 2.

Orochimaru never recovered from his pathetic showing against Itachi.

Most people with chakra got it from Hagoromo sharing it rather than being descended

She has about as much personality as Madara

strong guy who enjoys fighting

May as well be a cyborg

Is she a cyborg that created every relevant clan? Because that'd have to be the case for it to make sense.

She has about as much personality as Madara

Never said she was a better replacement for Madara, and no. She had absolutely 0 personality.

Is she a cyborg that created every relevant clan?

Sure. Why not? Doesn't change her character.

Better showing than this

Never said she was a better replacement for Madara

I said that she had as much personality as Madara. "Strong guy who likes to fight" vs "selfish witch who wants to hoard all chakra."

Sure. Why not? Doesn't change her character.

Who created this cyborg? Nothing about your comment makes sense.

selfish witch who wants to hoard all chakra

For what purpose? Fight fag is way more compelling than the robot you're attempting to defend.

Who created this cyborg?

Who cares? Where did the magical Chakra fruit tree come from? Where did this Alien Bunny come from? Cyborg or alien. Doesn't affect her character.